Showing posts with label Skywork Reward V2. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Skywork Reward V2. Show all posts

10.9.25

Language Self-Play: training an LLM without adding data actually works

 LLMs keep getting better by eating more data—until the data well runs dry. A new paper from Meta Superintelligence Labs proposes Language Self-Play (LSP): turn training into a game where a single model plays both sides—a Challenger that generates tougher prompts and a Solver that answers them—so the system improves without ingesting new datasets. In tests on AlpacaEval using Llama-3.2-3B-Instruct, LSP matches a strong data-driven RL baseline and even pushes beyond it when used as a follow-on stage. 

How it works: one model, two roles

LSP frames training as a minimax game: Challenger tries to minimize reward by making hard queries; Solver tries to maximize reward by answering them. Crucially, both roles are instantiated by the same LLM via a role-selecting prompt (e.g., a special challenger prompt), avoiding the instability and memory overhead of training an external adversary. KL regularization keeps the Challenger from devolving into nonsense prompts. 

Under the hood, LSP borrows group-relative baselines from GRPO: Challenger generates N queries, Solver samples G answers per query, and the average reward defines both a per-answer advantage (for Solver) and a “difficulty” signal (for Challenger). A practical variant, LSP-Zero, runs as a pure zero-sum game; the full LSP adds a quality self-reward scored by a reference model to prevent reward-hacking (e.g., answering everything in Python). 

Results: data-free ≈ data-driven—and sometimes better

Using GPT-4o as judge on AlpacaEval, the team compares models trained from the same base:

  • From base (no data): Overall win rates vs. the base model—GRPO (with data) 40.9%, LSP-Zero 40.1%, LSP 40.6%. Translation: self-play without any RL data keeps pace with standard RL. 

  • From RL (as a next stage): Starting from the GRPO model and continuing with self-play, LSP lifts overall win rate to 43.1%, with large gains on Vicuna-style conversational tasks (28.7% → 46.3%). 

The setup uses Skywork-Reward-V2-Llama-3.2-3B as the reward model; the authors note that LSP (with the added quality reward) avoids the degradation seen with LSP-Zero in some splits, and acknowledge dips on “chatbot-y” Koala prompts—likely because Challenger skews toward structured, orderly instructions. 

Why this matters

  • Data bottleneck relief. If you can translate “more practice data” into a self-generated curriculum, you can keep improving without chasing new corpora. 

  • A clean follow-on stage. Even after data-based RL, self-play adds headroom—useful when further high-quality preference data is scarce. 

  • Single-model simplicity. One backbone serves both roles, avoiding adversary models and the instability they bring. 

Caveats and open questions

Self-play can degenerate without the quality self-reward; reward choice caps the ceiling (a weak reward model means weak training signal); and Challenger diversity remains an open knob to broaden beyond the structured style seen in examples. Still, the authors argue the method should work even better on tasks with verifiable rewards (e.g., code tests), not just preferences. 

If your roadmap hits a data wall, Language Self-Play is a compelling new leg in the post-training pipeline: spin up a Challenger inside your own model, let it stress-test itself, and learn—no fresh dataset required.

Paper link: arXiv 2509.07414 (PDF)

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